I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

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TVOham Offline
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I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:20 pm



Unlike most atheists, I think there is a place for creationism in Biology class rooms.

To me it's important to see where we've been as far as science goes before we see where we are and where we are going. For a good portion of time creationism WAS what most people believed as far as human and other species origins go. I think (just like flat Earth theory and geocentricism) that creationism should be taught shortly before teaching evolution and that the reasons WHY creationism is false should be taught as well. In the long run this will actually educate children more so that when the standard creationism rhetoric comes up they'll know why it isn't the case.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:05 pm



I think creationism and evolution should be taught as well. The only problem with your statement is we cannot definitely say creationism or evolution is false. Kids should be taught creationism and evolution and why people *think* they're false and the claims against it. It's just like teaching other theories in science and math. A science teacher can't just say one or the other is wrong and be done with it. There has to be proof, and we can't prove either one.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:31 pm



HaViiK wrote:I think creationism and evolution should be taught as well. The only problem with your statement is we cannot definitely say creationism or evolution is false. Kids should be taught creationism and evolution and why people *think* they're false and the claims against it. It's just like teaching other theories in science and math. A science teacher can't just say one or the other is wrong and be done with it. There has to be proof, and we can't prove either one.

sure they can. I remember as early as my freshman year of high school being taught something and having the teacher explain why and when that was common belief, and how its been disproven (in physics, astronomy, and biology reg early evolution beliefs). There is proof of evolution, thousands of times more proof than creationism.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:49 pm



At first I thought this would be a circlejerk like 'I think creationism should be taught... SO PEOPLE KNOW HOW STUPID IT IS SWAAGGA' but this actually makes sense. Interesting idea.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:36 pm



Perhaps in a philosophy class, but certainly not in a science class.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:52 pm



Cubee wrote:Perhaps in a philosophy class, but certainly not in a science class.

its not a bad idea as an introduction as part of the history-like i said, we did this with almost everything we studied-learned about the roots, early ideas, how those early ideas were disproven or how they evolved, then into the unit. part of knowing why something is right is learning how other things (relating to the subject) were wrong.
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Re:

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:34 pm



As an environmental major, I do not believe creationism should be taught in science classes. We should overview Christianity in ethics and philosophy classes, alongside Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, and other well recognized religions. I took a class like this, and it taught me a great deal about the cultures revolving around all of these religions. Additionally it showed me that religion was a means to strong morals, and that every religion is essentially striving for the same thing, which is to have strong morals and ethics. If we all took a step back and realized religions were trying to achieve the same means, the world wouldn't be so messed up.

I also think if such a class were taught, there would be a huge uproar. Not because religion was being taught in schools, but because christianity would be compared to other religions which insecure parents wouldn't agree with. If Christianity were really everything it was cracked up to be, wouldn't students naturally gravitate towards Creationism, and stay away from everything else when these classes were taught? Surely teaching strong moral values from multiple viewpoints would be beneficial to society, and yet I think society fears giving people more than one option.

Science is based on statistical evidence, while religion is almost exclusively based on speculation surrounding a number of holy texts. I do feel there is value in these texts, but the value is found in morals and ethics. The value of these texts is not of any significant scientific value. Religion should be taught for ethical understanding, but not to explain strong scientific phenomena which have been well described using a very reputable process. If people want to believe creationism, so be it; but I think a stronger base of science and other religions is needed before assumptions can be made.


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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:16 am



HaViiK wrote:I think creationism and evolution should be taught as well. The only problem with your statement is we cannot definitely say creationism or evolution is false. Kids should be taught creationism and evolution and why people *think* they're false and the claims against it. It's just like teaching other theories in science and math. A science teacher can't just say one or the other is wrong and be done with it. There has to be proof, and we can't prove either one.

Your statement has one major problem: it's completely false. We most certainly can say creationism is false. We know the Earth is not 6000 years old for a fact. We know that there wasn't a major flood a few thousand years ago for a fact. We know that humans were not put on this Earth as is for a fact because we have transitional forms. We know that animals evolve slowly over time over the course of millions of years as a fact.

Creationism and evolution are not on the same playing field here. Creationism isn't science at all. Evolution is a fundamental building block of Biology and has been proved time and time again to be true.

Also, it's not as though creationism would be taught in depth. It would be part of a "introduction-history" of some sort. We talk about previous theories in other topics that were false. We should also mention creationism and WHY it's false that way less people would be so gullible as to buy into the basic creationism argument. It would be a good segway into evolution, which is the more current and factual theory in Biology today.
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:18 am



YOU SAID WHAT I SAID!!!! high fives for brainwaves
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:35 am



As a biology teacher at a rural school where many students think evolution is of the devil and blah blah blah, I have to disagree with TVO's wishes. We already spend a little bit of time discussing the processes that went into the development of modern evolutionary biology, such as Lamarck and Lyell's influences on Darwin. I'm afraid including describing in detail creationism dogma would simply cloud the already difficult concept of evolution (difficult for many reasons, not simply because it is complex and abstract) and in an area like mine, would simply lend credence to my students' erroneous beliefs about the world.

Instead, I would prefer to continue teaching biology the way I do: this is what we understand about reality, this is how we arrived at that understanding, and this is what that understanding empowers us to do. I don't really see the necessity anywhere in the process of talking about supernatural explanations of tribesmen from long ago.

And of course there's the issue of which creationist myth would we include? Would I focus on Christian creationism simply because that's the majority belief in my area? Wouldn't it be more fair to include creationism myths from at least all the major religions? If so, where on earth would I find time for that? I'm pressed enough as it is finding the time to ensure my students have even a fair grasp of the concepts they need to know.


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Re:

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:31 pm



this article doesn't 100% relate to what is being discussed here, but i just thought it was interesting that a site i go to just happened to post it as this topic was started

http://listverse.com/2013/02/07/10-reas ... in-school/
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Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:13 pm



ayeyomaggots wrote:this article doesn't 100% relate to what is being discussed here, but i just thought it was interesting that a site i go to just happened to post it as this topic was started

http://listverse.com/2013/02/07/10-reas ... in-school/
I disagreed with every argument in that article, the only place evolution is taught is in school. You wanna teach creationism in school, I get to teach evolution in sunday school.
I like the idea of teaching it to see how stupid it actually is, due to it's complete lack of evidence at all(considering why it's a belief)
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Re:

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:14 pm



I work in and went to the Catholic school that I am at now, and I think it is funny that the Catholic's sort of have it figured out...

if I went to one of the science teachers and asked if they taught Creationism in their class, they would laugh me out of the room and say: "Why would I do that...that's just a story" ; they do reference it as a lead-in, or in the same light as TVoham is referring to, but it is not taught as scientific fact.

Even the Religion teachers here would say: "Why would you teach that in science...it is a story".
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:05 pm



what do all the catholics think about the pope quitting, anyways?
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:20 pm



hotbeats645 wrote:what do all the catholics think about the pope quitting, anyways?
that, I don't know. Hasn't been much of a focus of discussion down here in the band room
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:33 pm



Ehh I don't think so. If we are gonna shed one religion's view point about the origins of species (even though in the USA at least we have a separation of church and state) then we would have to talk about the majority of religion's point. And I believe that the state shouldn't try to disprove your beliefs as a student.
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Re:

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:00 pm



Disproving the false beliefs that students hold is very important.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:42 pm



TVOham wrote:Disproving the false beliefs that students hold is very important.
here, here...that's what college is for....

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Re:

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:33 am



The world where snakes don't talk, fruits aren't magical, people don't live inside whales, and the Earth isn't thousands of years old.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:04 pm



TVOham wrote:The world where snakes don't talk, fruits aren't magical, people don't live inside whales, and the Earth isn't thousands of years old.
and money doesn't grow on trees; and your cell phone bill doesn't get magically paid; and the fridge doesn't replicate food automatically; and you can go to jail for f-ing up....
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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:36 pm



hotbeats645 wrote:
HaViiK wrote:I think creationism and evolution should be taught as well. The only problem with your statement is we cannot definitely say creationism or evolution is false. Kids should be taught creationism and evolution and why people *think* they're false and the claims against it. It's just like teaching other theories in science and math. A science teacher can't just say one or the other is wrong and be done with it. There has to be proof, and we can't prove either one.

sure they can. I remember as early as my freshman year of high school being taught something and having the teacher explain why and when that was common belief, and how its been disproven (in physics, astronomy, and biology reg early evolution beliefs). There is proof of evolution, thousands of times more proof than creationism.
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Re:

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:46 am



...and following up on the issue as to whether we teach every religions creation story...most of them are exactly the same, just with different characters and settings. It is cool to think how all of the creation stories evolved (hmmm, imagine that) out of roughly the same one, which had/has it's origins in the old animistic (pagan) religions. The major Western based religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) changed theirs to fit a more rules/control/patriarchal/monotheistic view point, and the Eastern religions (everything other than the 3 Western ones) pretty much keep the stories the same, with changes just reflecting cultural and societal histories, heroes, and rule systems.

The fact that this point still has to be argued in this day and age of instant information and technology proves how back-asswards we still are as a country...this and the whole out of control gun thing.

Creationism needs to be addressed in history/theology/philosophy classes, or as some have mentioned, a historical belief in science (just like flat worlds and stars revolving around planets)...and if and when it does, a smart teacher would teach ALL of the creation stories, and how they all interrelate with each other. It is really quite fascinating

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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:21 pm



Creationism should only be taught if it is explained how it is wrong. If it happens that new evidence suggests that there is some validity in it, then that will be taught instead. The current theory is evolution, and it should be understood why.


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Re: I think Creationism SHOULD be taught in schools

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:15 pm



The only science class Creationism should be taught ABOUT in is a social science class. Why would you talk about all of the people who never came close to making the lightbulb in comparison to Eddison unless you are talking about their method of doing so; (socialscience versus @science). Also thread title is misleading because when I clicked on it i was preparing my fingers to write a book thinking that you meant creationism was right.
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Re:

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:33 am



Creationism is NOT a legitimate scientific theory. In fact, it is NOT A THEORY AT ALL. It has ZERO explanatory value. It is WISHFUL THINKING on the part of gullible literalists...

How about for the Theory of Gravity we also teach "Godmakesitfall"

How about for germ Theory we just teach "Godmakespeoplesick"

How about for The theory of relativity we just teach "Goddoesit"

These are useless alternatives with no explanatory value. If someone wants to learn about creationism, they can find an outlet to do so. The science classroom is not that space. Evolution is a VERY VERY VERY well substantiated Theory (And not in the colloquial use of that word, it isn't just a "hunch") that is supported by MOUNTAINS of evidence. It is as close to a FACT as possible, but due to the constraints of scientific terminology, it cannot be elevated to fact.

Not only is Creationism UNFALSIFIABLE, but it is also NOT SUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE and the EVIDENCE that we DO HAVE contradicts its claims.

I'm sorry, but I find it repugnant to even suggest that we should give ANY credibility or time to Fairy tales written by nomadic goat herders...

Look at the creation myths of ALL other religions and cultures. They are similar and propelled by a massive amount of period induced ignorance.


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