Question about a scripture in the bible

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flamtaps5 Offline
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Question about a scripture in the bible

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:49 am



What do you make of this scripture?

*15*
Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces.*16*
The appearance of the wheels and their work "was" like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work "was" as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. *17*
When they went, they went upon their four sides: "and" they turned not when they went. *18*
As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings "were" full of eyes round about them four. *19*
And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. *20*
Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither "was their" spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature "was" in the wheels. *21*
When those went, "these" went; and when those stood, "these" stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature "was" in the wheels.
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Re:

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:51 am



I REALLY think its alien. (Note this is not all of the scripture)
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Re: Question about a scripture in the bible

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:12 am



THERE ARE ALIENS.
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Re:

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:08 pm



what book is it from?
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Re: Re:

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:39 pm



sxetnrdrmr wrote:what book is it from?
The bible in ezekiel. Its in the first couple of chapters I'm not exactly sure where
Edit: it's in the first chapter
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Re: Question about a scripture in the bible

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:58 pm



ALIENS THEY'RE ALREADY HERE BRUH
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Re: Question about a scripture in the bible

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:06 pm



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Re:

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:08 pm



Seeing as the creatures come from heaven, I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as life from other planets.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:42 pm



nescient7 wrote:Seeing as the creatures come from heaven, I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as life from other planets.
As a Christian, it may sound like I'm criticizing my own religious beliefs, so don't call me out on this. I'm not entirely sure.

This passage and the book of Revelation are very interesting reads for those seeking to use extraterrestrial life as an explanation of the Bible. Nearly ethnic religions, such as those found in cultures such as the Maya, Aztec, many American Indian groups, etc, displays a surprising interest in the sky, and an extreme knowledge of astronomical events. Many cultures, some thousands of miles apart, show eerie similarity in this knowledge, which is rather interesting. I'm sorry I'm getting onto the Ancient Aliens side of things, but there is some amount of evidence that aliens at one point visited the earth and these groups. As humans, we tend to seek explanation for these, err, phenomena. They see that these beings are so advanced and awesome that they literally think they are gods incarnate, so they worship them as spiritual figures. And the rest is left to interpretation. This is a huge topic.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 am



VoteLobster wrote:
nescient7 wrote:Seeing as the creatures come from heaven, I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as life from other planets.
As a Christian, it may sound like I'm criticizing my own religious beliefs, so don't call me out on this. I'm not entirely sure.

This passage and the book of Revelation are very interesting reads for those seeking to use extraterrestrial life as an explanation of the Bible. Nearly ethnic religions, such as those found in cultures such as the Maya, Aztec, many American Indian groups, etc, displays a surprising interest in the sky, and an extreme knowledge of astronomical events. Many cultures, some thousands of miles apart, show eerie similarity in this knowledge, which is rather interesting. I'm sorry I'm getting onto the Ancient Aliens side of things, but there is some amount of evidence that aliens at one point visited the earth and these groups. As humans, we tend to seek explanation for these, err, phenomena. They see that these beings are so advanced and awesome that they literally think they are gods incarnate, so they worship them as spiritual figures. And the rest is left to interpretation. This is a huge topic.
It's definitely food for thought
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:22 pm



VoteLobster wrote:
nescient7 wrote:Seeing as the creatures come from heaven, I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as life from other planets.
As a Christian, it may sound like I'm criticizing my own religious beliefs, so don't call me out on this. I'm not entirely sure.

This passage and the book of Revelation are very interesting reads for those seeking to use extraterrestrial life as an explanation of the Bible. Nearly ethnic religions, such as those found in cultures such as the Maya, Aztec, many American Indian groups, etc, displays a surprising interest in the sky, and an extreme knowledge of astronomical events. Many cultures, some thousands of miles apart, show eerie similarity in this knowledge, which is rather interesting. I'm sorry I'm getting onto the Ancient Aliens side of things, but there is some amount of evidence that aliens at one point visited the earth and these groups. As humans, we tend to seek explanation for these, err, phenomena. They see that these beings are so advanced and awesome that they literally think they are gods incarnate, so they worship them as spiritual figures. And the rest is left to interpretation. This is a huge topic.
My personal thought on so-called "primitive" nations and their knowledge of celestial events is that perhaps the idea that the human race has grown smarter over time is quite the opposite of what has actually happened, and that we've actually degraded in intelligence, even if we have more advanced machines/technologies to assist us today. Of course, for those who hold to the evolutionist worldview, this idea will be rejected immediately. But with intelligent design, it could hold up.

Just my thoughts, as I obviously have no hard evidence of any of this.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:39 pm



nescient7 wrote:
VoteLobster wrote:
nescient7 wrote:Seeing as the creatures come from heaven, I personally wouldn't put them in the same category as life from other planets.
As a Christian, it may sound like I'm criticizing my own religious beliefs, so don't call me out on this. I'm not entirely sure.

This passage and the book of Revelation are very interesting reads for those seeking to use extraterrestrial life as an explanation of the Bible. Nearly ethnic religions, such as those found in cultures such as the Maya, Aztec, many American Indian groups, etc, displays a surprising interest in the sky, and an extreme knowledge of astronomical events. Many cultures, some thousands of miles apart, show eerie similarity in this knowledge, which is rather interesting. I'm sorry I'm getting onto the Ancient Aliens side of things, but there is some amount of evidence that aliens at one point visited the earth and these groups. As humans, we tend to seek explanation for these, err, phenomena. They see that these beings are so advanced and awesome that they literally think they are gods incarnate, so they worship them as spiritual figures. And the rest is left to interpretation. This is a huge topic.
My personal thought on so-called "primitive" nations and their knowledge of celestial events is that perhaps the idea that the human race has grown smarter over time is quite the opposite of what has actually happened, and that we've actually degraded in intelligence, even if we have more advanced machines/technologies to assist us today. Of course, for those who hold to the evolutionist worldview, this idea will be rejected immediately. But with intelligent design, it could hold up.

Just my thoughts, as I obviously have no hard evidence of any of this.
I'm curious as to how you could even ever come close to thinking something like this is true.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:13 pm



ottomagne wrote: I'm curious as to how you could even ever come close to thinking something like this is true.
Not that I agree with nescient, but I think he means that the increased use of new technology could have given us less of a reason (take math for example) to do things the old-fashioned way. For example, (sorry if it sounds juvenile), prior to my 8th and 9th grade years, I could multiply large numbers with minimal trouble, and operate with fractions pretty well. (I could math good!) Later in the year we started using calculators from here, indefinitely. This year, I had some downtime in one of my classes, so I decided to work on some homework. I have used a computer to solve my problems (pun intended), but I didn't have it with me. So I decided to do it by hand. I was subtracting two numbers (somewhere in the hundreds or thousands, not 2 digits), when, lo and behold, my mind blanked when I was like "What? Carrying? What's carrying? How do I do it? I remember it but I don't!"

My idea is that we become unintelligent (or vice versa) individually. (Don't use it, you lose it.) I doubt that the IQ of humanity is literally dropping. Now, I think that if we ALL (or the amount that will reproduce) actually become unintelligent(er), evolution may take hold, but it would take several generations, providing it did. The reason that the primitive civilizations were so intelligent for their age is that they had complete devotion to that sort of thing. Their world revolved around agriculture and religion. Stonehenge? Related to the seasons (AKA agriculture). Mayan calendar? Religion and solar/lunar cycles. (That means seasons. Seasons mean agriculture.) Egyptian pyramids? Religion. See how this works? I'm sure if we got down to the extreme amount of geometry and maths that the primitive societies ACTUALLY USED, we could do what they did. It's not that we're getting dumber. We're just losing old skills.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:48 pm



ottomagne wrote:
nescient7 wrote:-quotesnip-
I'm curious as to how you could even ever come close to thinking something like this is true.
Well, if you take the Genesis account literally as I do, prior to man's downfall, God created the world in a state of perfection. After man sinned, corruption entered the world, and it therefore started to degrade. If you notice, man used to live more than ten times as long as our average lifespan now back in the first few generations of mankind (see Genesis 5), so it would make sense to me that the human genome may have degraded as well.

If you don't take the Bible's creation account literally, or you believe in the progressive evolution of man from a single-celled organism, then obviously the logic behind this theory falls apart.
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Re:

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:42 pm



I'm in awe as to what some people in the world actually believe...
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Re: Re:

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:09 am



TVOham wrote:I'm in awe as to what some people in the world actually believe...
Share you opinion
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Re: Re:

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:18 am



nescient7 wrote:
ottomagne wrote:
nescient7 wrote:-quotesnip-
I'm curious as to how you could even ever come close to thinking something like this is true.
Well, if you take the Genesis account literally as I do, prior to man's downfall, God created the world in a state of perfection. After man sinned, corruption entered the world, and it therefore started to degrade. If you notice, man used to live more than ten times as long as our average lifespan now back in the first few generations of mankind (see Genesis 5), so it would make sense to me that the human genome may have degraded as well.

If you don't take the Bible's creation account literally, or you believe in the progressive evolution of man from a single-celled organism, then obviously the logic behind this theory falls apart.
I don't. You probably shouldn't either. That's all that needs to be said on that.
VoteLobster wrote:
ottomagne wrote: I'm curious as to how you could even ever come close to thinking something like this is true.
Not that I agree with nescient, but I think he means that the increased use of new technology could have given us less of a reason (take math for example) to do things the old-fashioned way. For example, (sorry if it sounds juvenile), prior to my 8th and 9th grade years, I could multiply large numbers with minimal trouble, and operate with fractions pretty well. (I could math good!) Later in the year we started using calculators from here, indefinitely. This year, I had some downtime in one of my classes, so I decided to work on some homework. I have used a computer to solve my problems (pun intended), but I didn't have it with me. So I decided to do it by hand. I was subtracting two numbers (somewhere in the hundreds or thousands, not 2 digits), when, lo and behold, my mind blanked when I was like "What? Carrying? What's carrying? How do I do it? I remember it but I don't!"

My idea is that we become unintelligent (or vice versa) individually. (Don't use it, you lose it.) I doubt that the IQ of humanity is literally dropping. Now, I think that if we ALL (or the amount that will reproduce) actually become unintelligent(er), evolution may take hold, but it would take several generations, providing it did. The reason that the primitive civilizations were so intelligent for their age is that they had complete devotion to that sort of thing. Their world revolved around agriculture and religion. Stonehenge? Related to the seasons (AKA agriculture). Mayan calendar? Religion and solar/lunar cycles. (That means seasons. Seasons mean agriculture.) Egyptian pyramids? Religion. See how this works? I'm sure if we got down to the extreme amount of geometry and maths that the primitive societies ACTUALLY USED, we could do what they did. It's not that we're getting dumber. We're just losing old skills.
I wouldn't say that at all. Just because we get "rusty" on "old skills" doesn't mean we lose them. How long did it take you to remember how to "carry numbers"? I'm sure it didn't take you long to remember. And even if you did completely forget, how long would it take you to google "how to subtract numbers" and then remember the carry concept? That's not really "losing" an old skill - that's forgetting, which is much easier to go back and pick up than losing it is.

Think of this for a second - Newton, one of the founding fathers of science so to speak, invented calculus (spare me the Leibniz argument, I know he did the same). Nowadays, kids learn calculus in high school. Put that in perspective. Centuries ago, people learned so little that inventing Calculus was considered a huge ordeal. Now our kids learn that before they're even allow to legally drink. Not only that, but with things like EDx and KhanAcademy, you can learn college level material whenever you want. I taught myself how to program computers when I was still in middle school just because I had the drive to actually do it. Now, that's not the norm, but the sheer fact that I could do that with information that was available to anybody (online tutorials and books) is pretty amazing when you think about it, especially considering how relatively young the computer is.

Do you understand where I'm coming from? Barring individual accounts of derpy-ness or run-ins with kids being stupid, we're getting smarter as a whole. Knowledge is more accessible then ever, and everyone is jumping on board, whether they realize it or not. I implore anyone who thinks we're getting dumber to go watch a TED talk or too and try and absorb the knowledge being discussed. Salmon Khan's talk is particularly enlightening on the education system as a whole and puts things in a nice perspective.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:01 pm



nescient7 wrote:
Well, if you take the Genesis account literally as I do, prior to man's downfall, God created the world in a state of perfection. After man sinned, corruption entered the world, and it therefore started to degrade. If you notice, man used to live more than ten times as long as our average lifespan now back in the first few generations of mankind (see Genesis 5), so it would make sense to me that the human genome may have degraded as well.

If you don't take the Bible's creation account literally, or you believe in the progressive evolution of man from a single-celled organism, then obviously the logic behind this theory falls apart.
ummm...humans - in the First world - have the longest life span ever in history currently. In fact, the advent of modern medicine and pharmaceuticals has made it so our body lasts longer than it is naturally supposed to...by about 30 years.

I take the Biblical Genesis account as one of the many STORIES that humans came up with to describe their origins before they had the scientific knowledge to actually explain it, as we do now.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:51 pm



flamtaps5 wrote:
TVOham wrote:I'm in awe as to what some people in the world actually believe...
Share you opinion

There aren't many here that don't know it.


Either way, the statement that "humans used to live 10x as long as they do now" is absurd in itself. To honestly believe this you must literally deny all evidence. What is the point of science at all if we're just going to believe silly stories over it?
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Re:

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:33 am



TVOham wrote: Either way, the statement that "humans used to live 10x as long as they do now" is absurd in itself. To honestly believe this you must literally deny all evidence. What is the point of science at all if we're just going to believe silly stories over it?
In my own opinion, the idea that our existence is all a result of random chance is far more difficult to believe. Take, for example, the immense complexity of the human eye. Every single part of it would have had to silmultaniously evolve in order for it to work properly. You couldn't just have a lense and no rods or cones to interpret the light, or a pupil for it to pass through, etc. Not to mention the nerves connecting to your brain in a way that our minds can make sense of it. And that's just one example.

I personally have a huge interest in science, and what really bothers me is the fact that the theory of evolution is presented as if it were fact, even though there is not enough conclusive evidence to support it. The fossil record is vastly lacking in transitionary examples of evolution, despite the huge number of fossils we have uncovered.

As far as I can tell, what we see in nature looks to be much more in favor of an intellegent designer rather than the roll of the dice.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:23 am



nescient7 wrote:
TVOham wrote: Either way, the statement that "humans used to live 10x as long as they do now" is absurd in itself. To honestly believe this you must literally deny all evidence. What is the point of science at all if we're just going to believe silly stories over it?
In my own opinion, the idea that our existence is all a result of random chance is far more difficult to believe. Take, for example, the immense complexity of the human eye. Every single part of it would have had to silmultaniously evolve in order for it to work properly. You couldn't just have a lense and no rods or cones to interpret the light, or a pupil for it to pass through, etc. Not to mention the nerves connecting to your brain in a way that our minds can make sense of it. And that's just one example.

I personally have a huge interest in science, and what really bothers me is the fact that the theory of evolution is presented as if it were fact, even though there is not enough conclusive evidence to support it. The fossil record is vastly lacking in transitionary examples of evolution, despite the huge number of fossils we have uncovered.

As far as I can tell, what we see in nature looks to be much more in favor of an intellegent designer rather than the roll of the dice.
I'm debating whether or not I should refute all of your claims or whether I should let someone like Chance do it (his will probably be more detailed and better overall).

Instead I'll post a series of links debunking your claims since I don't have any time to write it out.
First of all, if you're impressed with the human eye then you should look at some of the other eyes in the owl kingdom that HAVE clearly evolved (we have the fossils to show it, including those "transitional fossils" that you claim are missing). Do you mean to tell me that god intelligently designed the owl to have a superior eye to his "loved children"?

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Owl hoo!

And evolution is presented as a fact because it IS a fact. This is not a theory in crisis nor is it a controversial issue in the science community. It shocks me that some people (particularly politicians) think they're smarter than 90+% of the science community. And here is a list of human transitional fossils we've uncovered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hu ... on_fossils

and here is a list for some of the other transitional forms we've uncovered
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tr ... al_fossils


All in all, the evidence clearly points to evolution. Bible thumpers just tend to read too much "discovery institute" instead of actual science. If you honestly "like" science you'd respect it by not pedaling pseudo-science.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:29 pm



nescient7 wrote:
TVOham wrote: Either way, the statement that "humans used to live 10x as long as they do now" is absurd in itself. To honestly believe this you must literally deny all evidence. What is the point of science at all if we're just going to believe silly stories over it?
In my own opinion, the idea that our existence is all a result of random chance is far more difficult to believe. Take, for example, the immense complexity of the human eye. Every single part of it would have had to silmultaniously evolve in order for it to work properly. You couldn't just have a lense and no rods or cones to interpret the light, or a pupil for it to pass through, etc. Not to mention the nerves connecting to your brain in a way that our minds can make sense of it. And that's just one example.

I personally have a huge interest in science, and what really bothers me is the fact that the theory of evolution is presented as if it were fact, even though there is not enough conclusive evidence to support it. The fossil record is vastly lacking in transitionary examples of evolution, despite the huge number of fossils we have uncovered.

As far as I can tell, what we see in nature looks to be much more in favor of an intellegent designer rather than the roll of the dice.
As tempting as all that is to refute, and as easy as it would be, I can't help but think this sounds so incredibly similar to some of the evolution vs. creation debates I've seen on YouTube or in person. Same tired talking points, same incredulous claims, same inability to actually research one's statements before making them. Alas friend, every example you've provided is a house of cards that any evolutionary biologist could knock over with a sigh. TVO provides a great example with the eye.

Creationists like yourself like to participate in puddle thinking. The puddle (you) looks around at his hole and exclaims "Oh my, this hole is absolutely perfect for me! If I was any bigger or smaller by even a single atom, I wouldn't fit! Obviously those hole has been perfectly designed for me." Poor puddle, can't see the reality that he conforms to the hole, not vice versa. We are evolved creatures that were brought about by some 3-3.5 billion years of incremental change. Yes, taking a snapshot right now and calculating the probability that all of this complexity would happen suddenly by chance is, well stupid. What is required is for a person to thinking back to front rather than front to back. Think in terms of small changes, sometimes merely a single gene, that amplify over eons. Given the amount of time we've had to work with, giant changes can indeed accrue, including but not limited to our so 'perfect' complex eye (so complex in fact that a good many things go wrong, like macular degeneration, the dual blind spots we all have, retinal tears, crystallizing aqueous humor, cataracts, myopia, hyperopia, glaucoma, color blindness, etc etc etc). It is indeed complex, and that complexity comes at a price because it is an evolved structure rather than an intelligently designed structure.


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Re: Re:

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:30 pm



nescient7 wrote:
TVOham wrote: Either way, the statement that "humans used to live 10x as long as they do now" is absurd in itself. To honestly believe this you must literally deny all evidence. What is the point of science at all if we're just going to believe silly stories over it?
In my own opinion, the idea that our existence is all a result of random chance is far more difficult to believe. Take, for example, the immense complexity of the human eye. Every single part of it would have had to silmultaniously evolve in order for it to work properly. You couldn't just have a lense and no rods or cones to interpret the light, or a pupil for it to pass through, etc. Not to mention the nerves connecting to your brain in a way that our minds can make sense of it. And that's just one example.

I personally have a huge interest in science, and what really bothers me is the fact that the theory of evolution is presented as if it were fact, even though there is not enough conclusive evidence to support it. The fossil record is vastly lacking in transitionary examples of evolution, despite the huge number of fossils we have uncovered.

As far as I can tell, what we see in nature looks to be much more in favor of an intellegent designer rather than the roll of the dice.
As much as I hate to shoot this down ,being that I am a Christian, evolution is a an undeniable fact. There are definitely small holes in the evolution theory (just like in nearly every theory),but evolution is definitely fact to at least some degree. For your eye example, I just recently watched a video in my biology class where the evolution of the eye was thoroughly explained so...


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Re:

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:04 pm



But if evolution is really an observable process, we should have thousands upon thousands of fossils showing the slow transformation from one species to another, but that is not the case. And why couldn't God make owls with superior eyesight to humans? There is nothing in the Bible that states that humans are supposed to be a model of perfect superiority over animals.

Additionally, the major assumptions upon which C-14, K-Ar, and Rb-Sr dating are all based is that they all have a constant decay rate and that the atmospheric content of these chemicals has been constant, which is not provable nor reasonable.
Evidence of this: (PDF)

So I therefore cannot conclude that the fossils that scientists have identified are, in fact, in sequential order, and could very well have existed side-by-side, and been deposited by such a catastrophe as a global flood.
IRCS '11 - 4th Bass: "True Love"
IRCS Indoor '12 - Snare: "Le Drum"
IRCS '12 - 3rd Bass: "The Gift"
IRCS '13 - Snare: "The Promise"


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Jeff Queen
Jeff Queen
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Re: Question about a scripture in the bible

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:55 pm



I'm shaking my head so much right now, it's unbelievable
I play and teach music (sometimes even band music!)

I work in music tech and licensing.

Music is an art and positive energy.


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