Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

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TVOham Offline
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:35 am



I know he said he does "believe" in evolution.

I was simply responding to you saying if he HAD said he doesn't "believe" in evolution that I would have had some argument for him, which I would have, but the argument would have started with "evolution isn't a belief" like I usually do.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:49 pm



Wait why am I always told evolution is just a theory rather than fact? In science we always call it the theory of evolution, not the 'law' of evolution.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:53 pm



ajcf1995 wrote:Wait why am I always told evolution is just a theory rather than fact? In science we always call it the theory of evolution, not the 'law' of evolution.
"Theory" as a scientific term doesn't mean what you think it does. An overly simplified version of theory vs. law is that a law is what happens and a theory is how it happens. There are plenty of theories that you probably believe in such as germ theory and the theory of gravity.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:08 pm



yoshikinto wrote:
ajcf1995 wrote:Wait why am I always told evolution is just a theory rather than fact? In science we always call it the theory of evolution, not the 'law' of evolution.
"Theory" as a scientific term doesn't mean what you think it does. An overly simplified version of theory vs. law is that a law is what happens and a theory is how it happens. There are plenty of theories that you probably believe in such as germ theory and the theory of gravity.
The science community needs to do something to clear this up :p
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:20 pm



lij2015 wrote:
yoshikinto wrote:
ajcf1995 wrote:Wait why am I always told evolution is just a theory rather than fact? In science we always call it the theory of evolution, not the 'law' of evolution.
"Theory" as a scientific term doesn't mean what you think it does. An overly simplified version of theory vs. law is that a law is what happens and a theory is how it happens. There are plenty of theories that you probably believe in such as germ theory and the theory of gravity.
The science community needs to do something to clear this up :p
Haha. If only we required something in schools like... classes... science classes! Where if kids paid attention they would learn things!
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:22 am



this won time i wet too syience clas and done learnt sumthing
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:47 am



I completely agree that the scientific community needs to better clarify the theory vs law, when it comes to evolution in particular. In my biology classes, I don't teach "theory of evolution," because there isn't one. I teach the Law of Evolution (allelic frequencies of populations change through successive generations) explained by the Theory of Natural Selection (those organisms that receive mutations which give them an advantage are more likely to survive and contribute to future generations, thus changing the allelic frequencies of their populations).

Evolution itself really does need to be considered a law because, as yoshikinto said, it just happens. If we start referring to evolution as the law it is and natural selection as the explanatory theory I think that would take a lot of weight out of the counter argument "but it's JUST a theory!"


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Re:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:21 am



Evolution isn't a belief.

sorry I should of said I don't deny the fact of evolution.


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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:11 pm



As a believer in Christ and accepting that every word in the bible is true, you can not believe that we evolved from bacteria. Anybody who does is misled

The theory of evolution does contradict belief in God
but please keep in mind that evolution is a theory, and you can't say "evolution disproves God's existence"

also
HHS_snare wrote:I do not believe so. I think that God and evolution can coexist when it comes to dealing with origin. As for a Christian point of view, I think most Christians need to take a step back and look at the Old Testament as a whole. Instead of a literal interpretation, I perceive the Old Testament as a sort of "Aesop's Fables" of why things came to be. I highly doubt that in 3100 BC people knew that we evolved because of natural selection. So as a result they came up with stories to explain it (just like in any other culture around the world). "Hey, why are we here?" "Umm.....welll...you see....[insert Adam and Eve story]." The same when dealing with morality "God didn't like mean people, so he flooded the world."
You can't take the bible and rework it and make it figurative to fit your mindset, thats what the Westboro Baptist Church does


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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:16 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:As a believer in Christ and accepting that every word in the bible is true, you can not believe that we evolved from bacteria. Anybody who does is misled

The theory of evolution does contradict belief in God
but please keep in mind that evolution is a theory, and you can't say "evolution disproves God's existence"

also
HHS_snare wrote:I do not believe so. I think that God and evolution can coexist when it comes to dealing with origin. As for a Christian point of view, I think most Christians need to take a step back and look at the Old Testament as a whole. Instead of a literal interpretation, I perceive the Old Testament as a sort of "Aesop's Fables" of why things came to be. I highly doubt that in 3100 BC people knew that we evolved because of natural selection. So as a result they came up with stories to explain it (just like in any other culture around the world). "Hey, why are we here?" "Umm.....welll...you see....[insert Adam and Eve story]." The same when dealing with morality "God didn't like mean people, so he flooded the world."
You can't take the bible and rework it and make it figurative to fit your mindset, thats what the Westboro Baptist Church does
But gravity's just a theory! Obviously, that means that it doesn't exist and that we're liable to fly off the Earth tomorrow. Right?
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:24 pm



ottomagne wrote:
☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:As a believer in Christ and accepting that every word in the bible is true, you can not believe that we evolved from bacteria. Anybody who does is misled

The theory of evolution does contradict belief in God
but please keep in mind that evolution is a theory, and you can't say "evolution disproves God's existence"

also
HHS_snare wrote:I do not believe so. I think that God and evolution can coexist when it comes to dealing with origin. As for a Christian point of view, I think most Christians need to take a step back and look at the Old Testament as a whole. Instead of a literal interpretation, I perceive the Old Testament as a sort of "Aesop's Fables" of why things came to be. I highly doubt that in 3100 BC people knew that we evolved because of natural selection. So as a result they came up with stories to explain it (just like in any other culture around the world). "Hey, why are we here?" "Umm.....welll...you see....[insert Adam and Eve story]." The same when dealing with morality "God didn't like mean people, so he flooded the world."
You can't take the bible and rework it and make it figurative to fit your mindset, thats what the Westboro Baptist Church does
But gravity's just a theory! Obviously, that means that it doesn't exist and that we're liable to fly off the Earth tomorrow. Right?

Actually the theory of gravity is just why we stay planted on the ground
its a fact we stay planted on the ground

its a theory because its not testable


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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:31 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:
☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:As a believer in Christ and accepting that every word in the bible is true, you can not believe that we evolved from bacteria. Anybody who does is misled

The theory of evolution does contradict belief in God
but please keep in mind that evolution is a theory, and you can't say "evolution disproves God's existence"

also
HHS_snare wrote:I do not believe so. I think that God and evolution can coexist when it comes to dealing with origin. As for a Christian point of view, I think most Christians need to take a step back and look at the Old Testament as a whole. Instead of a literal interpretation, I perceive the Old Testament as a sort of "Aesop's Fables" of why things came to be. I highly doubt that in 3100 BC people knew that we evolved because of natural selection. So as a result they came up with stories to explain it (just like in any other culture around the world). "Hey, why are we here?" "Umm.....welll...you see....[insert Adam and Eve story]." The same when dealing with morality "God didn't like mean people, so he flooded the world."
You can't take the bible and rework it and make it figurative to fit your mindset, thats what the Westboro Baptist Church does
But gravity's just a theory! Obviously, that means that it doesn't exist and that we're liable to fly off the Earth tomorrow. Right?


Actually the theory of gravity is just why we stay planted on the ground
its a fact we stay planted on the ground

its a theory because its not testable


You have a warped conception of science.

Also, the Bible is not a reputable scientific source and thus should not be cited in a discussion regarding science.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:58 am



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:
You can't take the bible and rework it and make it figurative to fit your mindset
, thats what the Westboro Baptist Church does

uhhh...isn't that what EVERY Christian religious sect has done? Isn't tha twhy Martin Luther broke from theCatholics? or why Eastern Orthodox Catholics are different than Roman Catholics?

If we didn't, or hadn't been doing this for centuries theri would only be one religion..and we would have avoided TONS of death, despair and otehr general religous based jackassery that has happened
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:46 pm



TVOham wrote: You have a warped conception of science.

Also, the Bible is not a reputable scientific source and thus should not be cited in a discussion regarding science.
You can't be serious right now
Do you not know what "theory" means? please go back to third grade
also, this is a thread about a religious question
sxetnrdrmr wrote: uhhh...isn't that what EVERY Christian religious sect has done? Isn't tha twhy Martin Luther broke from theCatholics? or why Eastern Orthodox Catholics are different than Roman Catholics?

If we didn't, or hadn't been doing this for centuries theri would only be one religion..and we would have avoided TONS of death, despair and otehr general religous based jackassery that has happened
No, that happened because the catholic church was corrupt
Martin Luther left because the church was doing things like make you pay to be forgiven of your sins
which is just making stuff up entirely


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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:10 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:
TVOham wrote: You have a warped conception of science.

Also, the Bible is not a reputable scientific source and thus should not be cited in a discussion regarding science.
You can't be serious right now
Do you not know what "theory" means? please go back to third grade
also, this is a thread about a religious question
sxetnrdrmr wrote: uhhh...isn't that what EVERY Christian religious sect has done? Isn't tha twhy Martin Luther broke from theCatholics? or why Eastern Orthodox Catholics are different than Roman Catholics?

If we didn't, or hadn't been doing this for centuries theri would only be one religion..and we would have avoided TONS of death, despair and otehr general religous based jackassery that has happened
No, that happened because the catholic church was corrupt
Martin Luther left because the church was doing things like make you pay to be forgiven of your sins
which is just making stuff up entirely
Or was it? :lol:
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:30 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:
TVOham wrote: You have a warped conception of science.

Also, the Bible is not a reputable scientific source and thus should not be cited in a discussion regarding science.
You can't be serious right now
Do you not know what "theory" means? please go back to third grade
also, this is a thread about a religious question
You're confusing the general definition of "theory" with the scientific definition. Again, there's a reason they call it the Theory of Gravity, the Theory of General Relativity, or the Theory of Evolution, even though they are all accepted across the board as "fact" as you say.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:03 pm



I'm a Protestant, Baptist Christian. I love to drum. I have common ground with everyone here.

I'd say the reason i believe in the God of the Bible over Science, (although i do believe "Science" as humans understand it is normally a dependable resource) is a simple and logical one. to me at least.

Either way, I'm choosing to believe something i read out of a book. every scientist is building a theory of how life works based on testable characteristics of our environment, and figuring out that there's enough coherence and agreement in certain places to assume 100% accuracy. obviously, "Science" is quite flawed, just as "Religion" tends to be. that's why even some of the most basic ideas about how life works have changed over time. (like, "the earth is flat")

The difference is that I know i'm just a random person. and on the whole, people make mistakes frequently and repeatedly. Scientists base their efforts and conjectures knowingly off of their own knowledge, which they understand is limited. at least at some point, the Bible claims to be inspired by a higher entity. Knowing how flawed I am as a human makes me much more comfortable trusting that there's someone smarter than me, (like the God in the Bible) who actually is responsible for the existence of everything, than trusting that my peers (who have the same pervasive human flaws as me, albeit with slightly more training) have finally figured it out THIS time and that the current theory of "whereeverythingcamefrom" is accurate enough to stand on.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:06 pm



SnareSauce wrote:I'm a Protestant, Baptist Christian. I love to drum. I have common ground with everyone here.

I'd say the reason i believe in the God of the Bible over Science, (although i do believe "Science" as humans understand it is normally a dependable resource) is a simple and logical one. to me at least.

Either way, I'm choosing to believe something i read out of a book. every scientist is building a theory of how life works based on testable characteristics of our environment, and figuring out that there's enough coherence and agreement in certain places to assume 100% accuracy. obviously, "Science" is quite flawed, just as "Religion" tends to be. that's why even some of the most basic ideas about how life works have changed over time. (like, "the earth is flat")

The difference is that I know i'm just a random person. and on the whole, people make mistakes frequently and repeatedly. Scientists base their efforts and conjectures knowingly off of their own knowledge, which they understand is limited. at least at some point, the Bible claims to be inspired by a higher entity. Knowing how flawed I am as a human makes me much more comfortable trusting that there's someone smarter than me, (like the God in the Bible) who actually is responsible for the existence of everything, than trusting that my peers (who have the same pervasive human flaws as me, albeit with slightly more training) have finally figured it out THIS time and that the current theory of "whereeverythingcamefrom" is accurate enough to stand on.
I will preface this by saying that i am NOT slamming your particular faith system...

...BUT, what you, and many other people seem to be missing is that "science as humans understand it" is based in empirical, concrete, logically organized experiments that are used to refute or solidify an answer. NOTHING in the bible is, or has done so. Believing what I read in a science book is NOTHING like "believing" what I read in a story book, which is, in essence, what ANY religious book is. The Bible is JUST LIKE Aesops fables. So is the Quran, the Bagavaghitta (sp?) the Satanic Bible etc. (Well the Satanic bible isn't even a story book...it is Anton LaVey trying to justify doing drugs and having orgies as a non-profit activity...which most "good" churches already beat him to any way...but i digress)

the difference is that Evolution can (and has been) be proven by multiple repeatable experiments...same thing with gravity, the Coriolis effect...WHATEVER. The creation STORY can NOT be proven by multiple repeatable experiments; the STORY of the IMMACULATE CONCEPTION CAN NOT be proven by multiple repeatable experiments; why are all of the Sacred religious events called STORIES and not THEORIES...

I do not doubt, or want to slight your comfort in the STORIES of your faith. I have the same with mine (which is one of the ones that Christianity subverted 2000 years ago, or about 550 to be more exact), But we all have to realize that these STORIES came about to explain things that the science of the time could not empirically prove. The scarier thing to me, now that I am free from the bonds of organized Western religious beliefs and can see it, is how many people sadly confuse faith stories with real knowledge, and then make critical life decisions on this basis..
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:25 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:
TVOham wrote: You have a warped conception of science.

Also, the Bible is not a reputable scientific source and thus should not be cited in a discussion regarding science.
You can't be serious right now
Do you not know what "theory" means? please go back to third grade
also, this is a thread about a religious question
sxetnrdrmr wrote: uhhh...isn't that what EVERY Christian religious sect has done? Isn't tha twhy Martin Luther broke from theCatholics? or why Eastern Orthodox Catholics are different than Roman Catholics?

If we didn't, or hadn't been doing this for centuries theri would only be one religion..and we would have avoided TONS of death, despair and otehr general religous based jackassery that has happened
No, that happened because the catholic church was corrupt
Martin Luther left because the church was doing things like make you pay to be forgiven of your sins
which is just making stuff up entirely

Are you some kind of troll?
Using ad hominem against me when you're clearly the one in the wrong won't do your argument any good whatsoever. I study Science and Evolution every day and I think I know a little bit more about both than you do (especially judging from your ignorance of what a scientific theory is). You should look up the difference between "theory" as used in common speak and "scientific theory". In the future you should do your research on your own instead of having me clarify it for you, that way you don't look like a complete fool the next time you try to insult someone.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:26 pm



SnareSauce wrote:I'm a Protestant, Baptist Christian. I love to drum. I have common ground with everyone here.

I'd say the reason i believe in the God of the Bible over Science, (although i do believe "Science" as humans understand it is normally a dependable resource) is a simple and logical one. to me at least.

Either way, I'm choosing to believe something i read out of a book. every scientist is building a theory of how life works based on testable characteristics of our environment, and figuring out that there's enough coherence and agreement in certain places to assume 100% accuracy. obviously, "Science" is quite flawed, just as "Religion" tends to be. that's why even some of the most basic ideas about how life works have changed over time. (like, "the earth is flat")

The difference is that I know i'm just a random person. and on the whole, people make mistakes frequently and repeatedly. Scientists base their efforts and conjectures knowingly off of their own knowledge, which they understand is limited. at least at some point, the Bible claims to be inspired by a higher entity. Knowing how flawed I am as a human makes me much more comfortable trusting that there's someone smarter than me, (like the God in the Bible) who actually is responsible for the existence of everything, than trusting that my peers (who have the same pervasive human flaws as me, albeit with slightly more training) have finally figured it out THIS time and that the current theory of "whereeverythingcamefrom" is accurate enough to stand on.


Let me summarize this.
"Humans are too flawed for me to believe, so instead I'll believe a book that humans wrote about an entity that is not human and has no evidence whatsoever in support of its existence."
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:32 pm



TVOham wrote:
SnareSauce wrote:I'm a Protestant, Baptist Christian. I love to drum. I have common ground with everyone here.

I'd say the reason i believe in the God of the Bible over Science, (although i do believe "Science" as humans understand it is normally a dependable resource) is a simple and logical one. to me at least.

Either way, I'm choosing to believe something i read out of a book. every scientist is building a theory of how life works based on testable characteristics of our environment, and figuring out that there's enough coherence and agreement in certain places to assume 100% accuracy. obviously, "Science" is quite flawed, just as "Religion" tends to be. that's why even some of the most basic ideas about how life works have changed over time. (like, "the earth is flat")

The difference is that I know i'm just a random person. and on the whole, people make mistakes frequently and repeatedly. Scientists base their efforts and conjectures knowingly off of their own knowledge, which they understand is limited. at least at some point, the Bible claims to be inspired by a higher entity. Knowing how flawed I am as a human makes me much more comfortable trusting that there's someone smarter than me, (like the God in the Bible) who actually is responsible for the existence of everything, than trusting that my peers (who have the same pervasive human flaws as me, albeit with slightly more training) have finally figured it out THIS time and that the current theory of "whereeverythingcamefrom" is accurate enough to stand on.


Let me summarize this.
"Humans are too flawed for me to believe, so instead I'll believe a book that humans wrote about an entity that is not human and has no evidence whatsoever in support of its existence."
Thanks for summarizing! Original was TL;DR
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:42 pm



I'm sorry i was rude

i don't subscribe to the idea of evolving from microorganisms because it contradicts my belief system

in the same sense, i don't value the decision made by men over the word of the Lord
so i don't accept a scientific theory to be fact because other men say so

lesterroyer wrote: Or was it? :lol:
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:53 pm



TVOham wrote:
SnareSauce wrote:I'm a Protestant, Baptist Christian. I love to drum. I have common ground with everyone here.

I'd say the reason i believe in the God of the Bible over Science, (although i do believe "Science" as humans understand it is normally a dependable resource) is a simple and logical one. to me at least.

Either way, I'm choosing to believe something i read out of a book. every scientist is building a theory of how life works based on testable characteristics of our environment, and figuring out that there's enough coherence and agreement in certain places to assume 100% accuracy. obviously, "Science" is quite flawed, just as "Religion" tends to be. that's why even some of the most basic ideas about how life works have changed over time. (like, "the earth is flat")

The difference is that I know i'm just a random person. and on the whole, people make mistakes frequently and repeatedly. Scientists base their efforts and conjectures knowingly off of their own knowledge, which they understand is limited. at least at some point, the Bible claims to be inspired by a higher entity. Knowing how flawed I am as a human makes me much more comfortable trusting that there's someone smarter than me, (like the God in the Bible) who actually is responsible for the existence of everything, than trusting that my peers (who have the same pervasive human flaws as me, albeit with slightly more training) have finally figured it out THIS time and that the current theory of "whereeverythingcamefrom" is accurate enough to stand on.


Let me summarize this.
"Humans are too flawed for me to believe, so instead I'll believe a book that humans wrote about an entity that is not human and has no evidence whatsoever in support of its existence."
God wrote the Bible you ignorant *beep*. I know because the Bible says so!
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:06 pm



☼▲ITAOTS▲☼ wrote:I'm sorry i was rude

i don't subscribe to the idea of evolving from microorganisms because it contradicts my belief system

in the same sense, i don't value the decision made by men over the word of the Lord
so i don't accept a scientific theory to be fact because other men say so

lesterroyer wrote: Or was it? :lol:
el oh el you got me


So essentially (and this goes for SnareSauce as well) you do not give proof/evidence/fact any stock whatsoever?

Other men don't just use their imagination to write a theory and suddenly everyone accepts it as a fact.
Last edited by TVOham on Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does Evolution disprove God's existence?

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:40 pm



TVOham wrote: So essentially (and this goes for SnareScience as well) you do not give proof/evidence/fact any stock whatsoever?

Other men don't just use their imagination to write a theory and suddenly everyone accepts it as a fact.
In accepting the bible as fact, how could i believe anything that contradicts it? That doesn't mean i just disregard anything a scientist says of course

Might i point out though, that an all powerful God could create an earth that has layers in the soil already, or has rocks that read to be 4 billion years old by our carbon dating


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